The Hong Kong Independence Party (HKIP) has been opposed to the Chinese Communist Party’s takeover of Hong Kong. I recently had the opportunity to interview spokesmen of the HKIP, Thomas Fong, K.C. Wong, and John Lee. These gentlemen have a compelling case to make for Hong Kong’s independence. They have direct experience in battling Chinese communism and know the tactics of the CCP better than many “experts” in the West. They offer us a warning about China. At the same time, they pose a question: Will the West stand up for Hong Kong?
Perhaps the greatest difficulty the Hong Kong Independence Party has encountered is the psychological unpreparedness of the Hong Kong people. This takes the form of ignorance on key issues and the effects of disinformation from CCP “spies.” The CCP always infiltrates its opposition with agents of influence who spread disinformation. In most cases it is difficult to separate useful idiots from agents of the Chinese special services. In this interview we will hear controversial statements about political figures in Hong Kong and in America. Please note: I have great respect for Elmer Yuen, who wants the CCP to be designated as criminal organization; but the leaders of the Hong Kong Independence Party are wary of Mr. Yuen because he has ties with figures in Beijing and he has criticized the HKIP. Here is a dilemma for anti-communists in every country. How do we form judgments about those who have worked closely with communist regimes in the past? There are no easy answers. Indeed, anti-communists are continuously faced with an epistemological dilemma: who is on our side and who is secretly working for the CCP? Politics, of course, breeds controversy even as controversy compels us to decide. In this regard, America is already in its own “wilderness of mirrors.” Westerners reading this interview must be prepared for statements that are shocking. It is best to listen to all parties. It is best to think carefully and reflect wisely.
The views expressed in the following interview are strictly those of the HKIP leadership.
NYQUIST: PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT YOUR ORGANIZATION.
KC Wong: Our organization is the Hong Kong Independence Party (HKIP). Daniel Ma is founder of our group. Our founding goes back to 2014. We see that the Joint Declaration [between Britain and China] has failed. In December 2014 the foreign affairs department of [the UK] Parliament invited us to a meeting. Many MPs wanted to examine how well the joint declaration has gone. In 2014 there were two representatives on the Foreign Affairs committee that asked, “What do you expect the UK government can do for you?”
We say, “Enforce the treaty, including the treaties of Nanking and Peking.” The only way to proceed is to cancel the Joint Declaration. We have tried to speak out in the international community about that. Those CCP spies, Nathan Law and Joshua Wong, were misleading people. They told people the Joint Declaration means China has sovereignty over Hong Kong legally. We have emphasized that the main issue of the democracy problem is the sovereignty issue. It is not like we have asked China for democracy. China herself has no democracy at all. It doesn’t make senses that the CCP will give us any democracy or any mercy. Unfortunately, those spies of CCP, Nathan Law and Joshua Wong, are backing the Hong Kong Democratic Party and Martin Lee and his fellows. In fact, Martin Lee has helped their lot to have access to congressional meetings in the United States.
Many congressional hearings have invited Nathan Law and Joshua Wong. These characters never mention anything about the Joint Declaration. They only talk up the Joint Declaration, saying it is working well. The CCP has no ability to give Hong Kong any democracy. You cannot ask a beggar for money. They are misleading the international community. There is no one who sits down at the table to negotiate [over] this treaty. The failure of the treaty is 100 percent the responsibility of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) government. The British government should declare this treaty null and void. Other governments should not recognize this treaty. According to international law, the British government should declare sovereignty over Hong Kong. There are three other treaties. Treaties of Peking, Nanking and Extension of the Lease. Theoretically, if the joint declaration fails these three treaties should be back in play.
The lease expired on the New Territories on 1 July 1997. But the Peninsula and the island was permanently British territory. Margarette Thatcher was trying to defend these places, but her cabinet said the old border was no longer defensible. Hong Kong, they said, cannot survive. This is untrue because sea water can be turned into fresh water if you build the capacity to do so. In fact, between 70s and 90s, the home government has built facilities to turn salt water into fresh drinking water to keep the island. Nevertheless, the UK Government and her cabinet caved in to CCP. Partly this was due to fact that the U.S. Navy said they won’t help in a war between the British and the PRC. Pressure from the Clinton administration was exerted. There are many factors as to why Hong Kong was given to China.
The British Government still recognizes the treaty as effective. Boris Johnson says the Chinese Government is obeying the treaty. But this is a joke. The Trump administration, for example, found that Iran always violates the terms of its treaty with the U.S. and the Trump administration thus abandoned the treaty immediately and imposed national sanctions, sending navies to the Persian Gulf. So, we can see that there is a difference between the U.S. and the U.K. in case a treaty has failed. We can see the U.K. government does nothing. The reply of the Home Office to us says, in effect, that the British are making money from China, so everything is fine. Giving us a UK visa is an admission that the treaty has failed. But they turn around and say the opposite.
The UK Government wants to evade its responsibility to the treaty. This treaty lasts until 2047. The Joint Declaration guarantees that Hong Kong should be exactly like it was under Britain, with its own democracy, for 50 years. Now it is only 2021. No more freedom for Hong Kong. No more democracy. The people of Hong Kong cannot live freely. The Minister of Immigration of China controls immigration from Hong Kong.
NYQUIST: IS HONG KONG DESTROYED AS A CENTER OF COMMERCE BECAUSE OF THIS?
KC WONG: The core of Hong Kong has been destroyed. On the surface Hong Kong looks stable. But, in fact, the Hong Kong people have no freedom. No laws are effective. As you can see, Canton (Guangzhou) looks stable on the outside because everyone has no freedom. Hong Kong now has only money. That is all that is left. The currency of Hong Kong dollar is linked to the U.S. dollar. The U.S. government allowed, officially, an exchange between U.S. and Hong Kong dollars. The U.S. Congress respects the Joint Declaration. This means the U.S. Hong Kong policy is based on the Joint Declaration which has failed. If the UK can declare the failure of the treaty and terminate it, then the exchange between U.S. and Hong Kong dollars will end. This will seriously damage China. We hope this will be effective. But even so, the Chinese Government effectively occupies Hong Kong.
NYQUIST: CHINA HAS THE MILITARY ADVANTAGE IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA. THEY ARE COMMITTED TO FIGHTING FOR CONTROL OF HONG KONG BECAUSE THEY SAY IT IS CHINESE TERRITORY. HOW COULD HONG KONG BE RECOVERED WITHOUT A MAJOR WAR?
KC WONG: The Chinese Navy is not superior to British and American navies. Do not be fooled. The CCP lies all the time. They are not so strong. In fact, they lie too much. It is just like the Ching Dynasty. Everyone thought the Ching Dynasty would defeat the Japanese. One looked at the power of the cannons and speed of the warships. The Chinese navy was built by the British and the Germans. Yet the Ching Dynasty was defeated by Japan. I believe China is weak when they look strong. They try military exercises, but these are failures. Their aircraft carriers do not work properly. The U.S. Navy pretends that these are real warships. I do not believe the Chinese Navies have any real quality, including hardware and software. According to MPs here, they ask about possibility of UK to defend Hong Kong. I have replied to them that a military operation is necessary. You must go back into the city and restore everything. You must restore Hong Kong as the 54th commonwealth nation. But the UK locals hate war and don’t want any war. So, it is a political problem rather than a power issue.
NYQUIST: WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO SPREAD PRC DISINFORMATION? HOW DO YOU BEAT THEM WHEN THEY HAVE THE MEDIA ON THEIR SIDE?
JOHN LEE: We say Nathan Law and Joshua Wong are spies because they are always doing favors to the CCP government. The only way legally to have democracy in Hong Kong is to show that the Joint Declaration has failed. Those guys mislead the U.S. Congress and Parliament about this. That was their doing. They just buy time for the CCP, getting us to chase our tails for years; but this is ridiculous. They have great media contacts and manipulate the media. They just buy time for China to defeat the U.S.
THOMAS FONG: John has just made some good points. I would like to add some practical examples as to why we see Law and Wong as spies. In 2019 Joshua went to Germany and told reporters on German National TV, he said, “We Hong Kongers are only looking for democracy.” He even said that Hong Kong is China’s territory. He said this explicitly, and that we only want democracy. So, he says we don’t want to be independent at all. He was saying this quite explicitly. This tells us who he is.
KC WONG: There is one slogan in London: “Hong Kong is not a place.” This saying was sponsored by Hong Kong Watch. We are very angry about this advertisement. That means the people who died in 2019 are not buried in our homeland. Their blood is being used by these people to raise money in the international community and, also, they are begging for foreign residency. You will see that the Home Office knows this, and that these visas will not benefit protestors because these protestors have no money. All the money goes to the CCP spies.
THOMAS FONG: You can see from their propaganda that they tell everyone they have raised billions and billions of dollars. This is quite strange. From various forums people were saying they would pay a few hundred in donations. So, these people have billions of Hong Kong dollars? Maybe it is from billionaires, from those so-called democracy fighters like Jimmy Lai. He is the sugar daddy of the pro-democracy newspapers in Hong Kong and Taiwan. So, there must be someone supporting Nathan Law and Joshua Wong.
NYQUIST: I UNDERSTAND FROM CONTACTS AT EPOCH TIMES THAT THERE IS FACTIONAL FIGHTING INSIDE THE CCP. IS THIS SOMETHING YOU CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF?
KC WONG: There are different gangs and groups in CCP. The Chinese bankers in Hong Kong are backing Jiang Zemin gang. And so, Xi Jinping wants to clear everyone out of this group. This is power competition. Whatever gang they are, they are all CCP. They are still communists. They are only looking out for their own interest. And now our Hong Kong young people have been sacrificed in this competition for power. People in CCP are only thinking of their own future and money and power. That is why we always emphasize that without sovereignty there is no democracy for Hong Kong. There is no difference between group A and group B in CCP. Once they have occupied most of the resources of Hong Kong it will be under dictatorship.
THOMAS FONG: KC has made a good point. If you still remember, a guy killed his girlfriend in Taiwan and fled back to Hong Kong and a remedy was sought through China’s laws. Also, Causeway Bay Book Store boss was kidnapped to China very easily, without any legal process. Compared to others, they can kill us at any time. We are like mosquitos who can be killed with one clap. This is how CCP functions in Hong Kong.
KC WONG: I am a real Hong Kong native, so I will treat Falun Gong or Epoch Times as foreign media. It is not our business what they do. Falun Gong was raised in China many years ago because their leader was supported by Chinese officials. Twenty years ago, many officials in China followed Falun Gong. This was a very popular thing. Eventually other groups in CCP tried to push them out because Falun Gong became a religion. Certain groups in CCP feared they might lose power [to Falun Gong], and they are scared of losing power. That is my opinion. I just treat situation of Falun Gong as internal war in Africa. We don’t care what is happening in Africa. We haven’t heard any updates of internal wars in Africa. But we all know that some killing continues in Africa. Inside China, the CCP looks very complicated; but they are very simple. They have different groups inside and they are fighting each other in soft or tough ways. But there is one CCP. They are all CCP. Their action is still united from our point of view. On the other hand, they compete with each other. In our group we see a lot of spies from mainland China. These groups want to expand their interest. Not just money, but influence. Also, they want to occupy places of culture, knowledge, and religion, softly.
This will cause problems if foreigners give too much mercy to these poor groups because you yourself will suffer in the end. This is because their mindset is all the same. When they have no power, they seem sympathetic. But when they have power, they will be ruthless. They will grab you secretly and send you somewhere else. Just like the case of Causeway Bay books.
The Falun Gong group is not reliable. They are simply puppets of CCP power. They were expelled by CCP. Can you believe these people are innocent? Where does their money come from? How can they publish newspapers everywhere? Where does this orchestra, piano competition and dancers come from? Where is their money coming from? I do not believe they have done such good fund raising.
THOMAS FONG: Even though the pandemic is from China, they want to stop this word, “China virus,” and call it a new virus. Wuhan can [humorously] be called New City from now on.
KC WONG: Epoch Times and CCP can raise money quickly. Only those associated with CCP can raise money so quickly. Some CCP officials support Falun Gong – even low-level officials – who are on the district level, can have millions of dollars inside their homes. They also have lots of gold bars. Where does this money come from? Where does Falun Gong come from? These questions must be asked.
THOMAS FONG: Joshua Wong has bought a new house on Hong Kong Island. Where does his money come from? We know that Hong Kong houses are the most expensive houses in the world. You save your wages for years to buy such a house. Where does the money come from?
NYQUIST: YOU SEE YOURSELVES SURROUNDED BY TREACHERY, BY PEOPLE WHO PRETEND TO BE FOR HONG KONG? THEY GET MEDIA ATTENTION. THEY GET MONEY. HOW CAN YOU COMPETE?
THOMAS FONG: Very good question. It is very hard for us to compete. My personal opinion looks to religion…. We find it very hard to fight the CCP because Hong Kong people are historically uninformed. We need to learn more history to fight the communists. I was one of those who chose math and physics so I could make money. That is the culture of Hong Kong. More people are studying history now, but it is too late already. People know some history, of course. But how do we cope with propaganda slogans like “Whoever you are, you should not betray them”? The people who made this slogan are CCP! Who made up these slogans? For what reason? Why should we walk with Joshua Wong and Nathan Law? He is the most likely person to use this slogan. First day of October 2014 was the National Day of CCP, and they raised their flag in Hong Kong; but Joshua Wong and his fellows stopped everyone from making noise to ruin the flag-raising ceremony. It is so symbolic.
KC WONG: In effect, Joshua Wong stopped our people from protesting and by emphasizing that Hong Kong belongs to China, he helps CCP. People say he is a good person because he is arrested and put in Jail. No. That is part of his job. People say he is a real democracy fighter. No. He is spy of CCP.
THOMAS FONG: He is always released at critical times.
KC WONG: Elmer Yuen’s son and his son’s wife were supporters of CCP. Just like Li Ka-shing. When Xi Jinping was minister of one village, he gets help from these businessmen. CCP wants help from Hong Kong people to set up factories. Canton then becomes one of the richest provinces of China. After that, the CCP gets the money and factories. But then, the CCP nationalizes these properties. So, these guys are bankrupted. The CCP has stolen everything and kicked them out. This is what happened to Elmer Yuen. If you say anything opposing any leader or policy in China you will have trouble until you are forced to leave the country. If you listen to Elmer Yuen, he was pro-CCP initially. They eventually targeted him, and he started to oppose the CCP.
NYQUIST: ARE ALL FOREIGN BUSINESSMEN IN CHINA EVENTUALLY EXPROPRIATED?
KC WONG: You cannot do anything in China unless you are pro-CCP.
THOMAS FONG: I would like to add something about Elmer Yuen. When I went to some online Hong Kong forums, I learned something interesting. The same accounts are always saying that the Hong Kong Independence Party strategies will harm Hong Kong. These online accounts were always against us. When the protests and street fights were demolishing the city, they blamed us. Now the city is calm again, so they then copy and paste to support us for no apparent reason. They turned their stance 180 degrees. I recognize those online accounts and the way they maneuver. The names on those accounts were not changed in the forums. This happened with Mr. Yuen as well. He said, “United Kingdom must abolish the joint declaration.” I am happy but very surprised he changed his tune when these online accounts changed theirs. They copy our content. They copy our Facebook. They are stealing our thunder, but they are not serious. They want to tell everybody they support Hong Kong people and those young and brave kids who have died already. Those who died could have been saved if our cause had been heard, but others stole the publicity. Facebook tries to ban our posts. Now our Facebook page can only be seen by four people, not even five.
NYQUIST: LET US TALK ABOUT CCP ECONOMIC STRATEGY. WILL THE CCP EVENTUALLY NATIONALIZE ALL FOREIGN HOLDINGS IN CHINA?
KC WONG: Yes. Yes. Just like the CPU chips now. That is why Taiwan is so critical. They have these technologies. The Trump administration knew the Chinese CCP was always stealing everything. They were stealing all technology. The outcome of all research is stolen. The CCP won’t only steal technology, they will nationalize all foreign holdings in China. They will do this, obviously. For example, the car industry. BMW was fined for billions in China, supposedly for violating terms. BMW was cooperating, but it doesn’t help them. BMW needs to partner with a China company 49-51 percent of stock. There are tricks by which China takes the money and technology and the Germans lose. Many companies are being robbed. Just like the 5G thing. They have stolen lots of technology and techniques for making things. Many non-Chinese companies are being robbed.
NYQUIST: SO, THIS IS AN ONGOING PROCESS?
KC WONG: The mindset of CCP is oriented to be strong like the USSR. They try to project image that China is strong. They use every methodology and strategy to make them strong. But, in fact, they are always stealing. They steal everything. Also, with marketing and the media, especially nowadays, information spreads quickly. It looks like China is very strong. Huge numbers of warships and planes. But to be honest, as someone who suffers from CCP, I do not believe their power. You will be surprised if you visit China. They are not really building a strong country. They only want to advertise themselves as strong. They want everyone to be loyal to CCP.
NYQUIST: SO, YOU ARE TELLING ME THE SYSTEM IS TOTALLY CORRUPT?
KC WONG: If you read the history of the CCP you see they are spying everywhere. They even tried to spy on the Japanese as they cooperate with the Japanese. Have you read history? Japanese killed many Chinese during the war. The first leader of CCP, Mao Zedong, thanked Japan. Without Japanese the CCP would not have power in China.
NYQUIST: IS CHINA A POTEMKIN VILLAGE?
KC WONG: If you visit China internally, in central China, you will see the real face of China. In cities like Shanghai and Beijing, there is prostitution. Many shops are bankrupt and shut down. China is actually weak. They try to build things grand, scamming the West – especially the Western people who love China very much. Westerners love the culture and history. Even Italian priests explore China with positive feedback. We understand that. But the CCP wants to steal from you. They want to grab everything from you. They will spy on you. They will brainwash your people. They will occupy your place. Look at the Confucius Institutes. They are taking the ideas of Confucius and twisting them. The CCP opposes every opinion of Confucius, but they are using his name to advertise themselves.
NYQUIST: ABOUT THE PANDEMIC FROM WUHAN. WHAT DO YOU THINK CAUSED THIS?
KC WONG: This is a biological weapon. We have read many reports. They have combined at least three types of RNA. This should not occur naturally. This kills humans. The CCP is trying to lie, as usual. The deaths in India are suspicious. This latest Indian variant, in my opinion, is a bioweapon; but it was leaked out of Wuhan and spread everywhere. And then, this virus, being unnatural, its RNA knows how to kill people faster. Everything goes naturally. I cannot say this virus was injected into India. But this virus knows how to upgrade itself. This virus becomes very smart. If this virus comes from nature, it should not behave like this.
NYQUIST: IN YOUR OPINION, HAVE CCP AGENTS INFILTRATED THE AMERICAN CDC AND NIH? ARE THEY ACTIVELY TRYING TO RESTRICT THE USE OF ANTI-VIRALS? HAVE THEY PUSHED THE VACCINE IDEA ON US?
KC WONG: Vaccines will never catch up with the mutations of the virus. Even the flu, which goes slower, requires different flu shots at different times. The West wants to develop a vaccine to solve this problem; but on the other hand, the nature of this virus is that it was created as a weapon. There are lots of spies in the West, including naturalized Canadian citizens of Chinese background. So, there are two powers on the earth. There is the West who wants a normal life and there is China that leaked this virus; and it looks like they are using your own technology against you. The West’s strategy against the virus will not work. You cannot do lockdowns long-term. You have to treat it as normal flu and let those who die die. This virus will keep disrupting the West’s economy for years and might destroy the West’s power altogether. I just want to add one thing. The CCP had to leak the virus to the world, and Dr. Fauci is a spy of CCP.
NYQUIST: WHAT MAKES YOU SAY THAT FAUCI IS WORKING WITH THE CCP?
KC WONG: We have letters issued two years ago. When you talk about evidence, whether Fauci is a spy or not, he made a public speech in 2017 in which he said there may be a public disaster in the future involving a virus that will attack our lungs. I can show you the video. Also, Bill Gates said the same thing a few years ago. I wonder why they knew this was coming a long time ago. This is quite suspicious to me. This is from their public speech. This is not a secret.
NYQUIST: HOW WOULD THE CCP HAVE GOTTEN INFLUENCE OVER THEM?
KC WONG: It is a matter of money and influence. Look at Joe Biden. He is just like Joshua Wong and Nathan Law. He may look like he is critical of the Chinese government at times. But the Chinese government is violating international law and he does nothing. Nobody is willing to take a tough stand against China. The CCP espionage networks are therefore really good in the USA. The leaders of BLM buy houses and raise money during protests, just like CCP spies in Hong Kong.
NYQUIST: WERE CCP AGENT PROVACATEURS INVOLVED IN THE HONG KONG VIOLENCE IN 2019?
KC WONG: I think the protest was genuine at first. But the Hong Kong people did not want the Five Demands. They want the criminal law to be dismissed. But after one month, Joshua Wong and organizers of the protests worked to establish a slogan and wanted to hijack our people.
JOHN LEE: Joshua Wong and the organizers changed the whole meaning of everything by saying they wanted democracy under Chinese sovereignty. These people asked the international community to investigate Hong Kong police brutality. But this was the CCP secret police at work, not the Hong Kong constabulary.
THOMAS FONG: I must interrupt. The People’s Liberation Army put on Hong Kong police uniforms and we can tell this is what happened because these troops cannot speak our language, Cantonese.
JOHN LEE: This is not police brutality. This is the work of Chinese spies to confuse foreigners.
THOMAS FONG: In terms of the Five Demands, all this is suspicious to me because I usually follow online forums regularly. In June, at the start of the protests, people said we should fight until we die. We should fight for our lives. So, some people advertised we should use all means to fight against the Chinese (PRC) government. One week later the topic changes. Someone brings up our strategy during the Umbrella Movement. They say that we should go for Five Demands. So, I can see that this is already propaganda under CCP control. The protest came under CCP control. Many people are willing to use violence, or sacrifice people, but then it becomes somehow stupid.
NYQUIST: IT IS A PROVOCATION, THEN, TO JUSTIFY ELIMINATING PEOPLE?
KC WONG: There were three groups of people. First, the mobile protestors who were being encouraged through social media. You can see, in the conflicts at the universities, that these young people were encouraged on social media. Who encouraged them to violence? Who is the real boss that organized these protests? Some post writers and creators were encouraging young people to go out on the street. At the beginning of the protest the middle class came out. Soon they came into conflict with the police. The situation gets very bad. Some go to the British consulate begging for a resident visa. The British then give residence visa and wash their hands of the matter. So, who are the organizers behind it? Who are they, actually? Wong and Law are behind this. Ho Chi Fong. They were encouraging the young protestors to go to the street. Then they act as middlemen between protestors and the police. There are three groups of people in these protests. Those politicians in Hong Kong, like the legislative council members in the Democratic Party, who want to keep their positions and their power and salaries. That is why they never mention the sovereignty of Hong Kong. They want the trouble to go away so they support China’s sovereignty. These are clearly Chinese spies. Of course, everyone has their own interest. But these people have one common interest.
JOHN LEE: These so-called Legislative Council people, want to be loyal to CCP. The young people went to the street and were willing to die. It was important for the CCP to crush and kill them. So, in 2019 protest they got them out into the street to fight the police for nothing. Even if they defeated the police there would be no Hong Kong Democracy. At first, more than hundreds of Facebook posts were about football. But suddenly the Facebook postings asked the young people to go out on the street and fight. All of this told people to go out and protest. This Facebook page was organized by the CCP. This is clear.
KC WONG: We cannot investigate and find the big boss behind this. People have a lack of knowledge about the CCP. They do not understand International Law. They have never drilled down to the cause of the problem. Yet they are told to go to the street. So, the protests were manipulated. As John Lee said, the Facebook page was encouraging many of these people to put themselves at risk. The Hong Kong people have an inadequate knowledge of the CCP and its methods. If they understood the cause of sovereignty, if they understood the history, they would not have gone to the street.
THOMAS FONG: I would like to add something about the so-called Legislative Council members, because ten years ago there were members who acted radically in the chamber. The most radical one was Mr. Wong who rushed around insulting the chief executive. He also rushed to the chairman’s table in order to stop certain bills from being passed. That is how he operated. Every time he used these methods and left his seat to go to the chairman’s table, the whole Democracy Party said they will never support violence. But in 2019 they supported violence. So, if you remember what I just discussed before, about Mr. Yuen and those guys on the Internet: they all did the same tricks. Then they changed their position. Why? It happens again and again.
NYQUIST: LET ME ASK ABOUT YOUR ORGANIZATION IN UK.
KC WONG: We are the Hong Kong Independence Party. Hong Kong should be 54rth commonwealth nation. This is the UK’s business. We formed in UK and Hong Kong at the same time. My duty here in UK was to form this party legally.
NYQUIST: AND YOUR MEMBERS ARE PERSECUTED IN HONG KONG?
KC WONG: Our founder, Mr. Ma, has hidden himself. He has escaped arrest. He was depicted on Global Times in China headline.
NYQUIST: ARE YOU ALL CONSIDERED TRAITORS OF CHINA?
KC WONG: Our homeland is Hong Kong and according to International Law we have the right to determine our own future. Without sovereignty we cannot uphold democracy.
NYQUIST: IS THERE ANY HOPE THE BRITISH WILL DO ANYTHING?
KC WONG: At the moment it is quite hopeless. We can only appeal to the International Media so that someone will underscore our message that a real Hong Kong democracy requires real independence. Even in the U.S. Congress they want to see a real democracy in Hong Kong. But your sanctions and visas cannot achieve this.
NYQUIST: FROM WHAT YOU HAVE SAID, I BELIEVE YOU ARE ADVOCATING MILITARY INTERVENTION BY THE UK AND USA.
KC WONG: Not really. I can say only that we have no choice. The reality is that our people have no arms. They are not like Poland. Poland has arms but we have none. Our people never trained and never armed. We seek the lawful way, the treaty. We seek to use international law. We do not want any violence to China, but we have the right to make a choice for our future. On the other hand, the UK has promised that every part of the Joint Declaration will be followed. But this has become a scam. The UK government is avoiding its responsibility. In fact, Parliament has released a report that says the Joint Declaration must be voided.
NYQUIST: THE UK PARLIAMENTARY REPORT ADMITTED THAT THE JOINT DECLARATION MUST BE VOIDED?
KC WONG: It is the only solution if the PRC continues to violate the treaty.
JOHN LEE: Our Party has five agendas: (1) We demand UK Government to terminate the Sino-British joint Declaration; (2) The U.S. Government should terminate the U.S.-Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992, and then the Chinese currency status will collapse which depends on Hong Kong dollar and will force CCP into panicked retreat. We believe the key is a financial victory. We do not want a real war. Financial power is the way here; (3) The UK and U.S. should declare that the CCP is illegally occupying Hong Kong, because the UK can then enforce the treaties of Nanking and Peking; (4) NATO military should intervene in Hong Kong because this is British territory which has been violated, and NATO is bound by treaty to oppose China. We believe the Chinese Army will not resist; (5) Our homeland, Hong Kong, must join the commonwealth as an independent nation so that Hong Kong people can run Hong Kong. This is all legal.
NYQUIST: WOULD YOU AGREE THAT CHINESE SPIES ARE BASICALLY RUNNING HONG KONG TODAY?
KC WONG: From 1997 Chinese agents have been running Hong Kong. One hundred percent. Because we do not have valid elections. They have simply appointed Chinese agents to run Hong Kong during the past twenty years.
NYQUIST: AGAIN, I ASK THE QUESTION. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH CHINESE AGENTS WHO ARE DOMINANT IN HONG KONG?
KC WONG: We have no understanding as yet how to deal with this problem. I think they should have a choice to leave Hong Kong for China. We have had no discussion about this. A nation has citizenship and residency. Only the real Hong Kong people should be citizens. CCP agents or spies should be treated as Chinese citizens.
NYQUIST: YOUR POSITION IS THAT THE UNITED KINGDOM AND THE UNITED STATES HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO RESTORE HONG KONG AS AN INDEPENDENT CITY. BUT EVEN IF THIS IS DONE WITHOUT A WAR, YOU HAVE THE LONGSTANDING PROBLEM OF CCP INFILTRATION OF HONG KONG. I WANT YOU TO THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT WHO YOU ARE FIGHTING AND THE MISTAKES EVERYONE HAS MADE IN DEALING WITH CHINA. IN THIS CONTEXT, HOW MIGHT CHINA BE DEFEATED POLITICALLY?
JOHN LEE: If we ask Nathan Law, do you support Hong Kong independence? — He cannot answer this publicly. Then he is exposed. What other measure can we adopt to defend against Chinese agents? I do not have an answer.
KC WONG: The first thing is the mindset of our people. Loyalty is zero right now in our homeland. If everyone loves their homeland, what you said will be easily solved. Of course, our next generation is important. I will not say they are brainwashed, but they do not know who they are and their heritage. They do not know about their sovereignty. It looks like a philosophy question, but to be honest it is too far ahead to look; but if you ask me this question, the love of our homeland and loyalty and mindset of the next generation is the key to the future.
JOHN LEE: It is just like “Make America Great Again.” We cannot compromise with Chinese communist institutions. There are lots of Chinese agents in the media.
KC WONG: But it is not just the media. It is the Hong Kong people themselves. Our mindset has led us to being brainwashed by the CCP. Hong Kong people cannot defend because of a failure of ideas. They are not oriented to their own future. They want China to be a democratic nation. But this is not our job. How can we help others fight for democracy in China? It is a joke. China is China. That is not our business. But we say: “China, we want to get away from you.” We want to do our own business. And we have the British promise of the Joint Declaration.
NYQUIST: WHAT DO YOU THINK THE FUTURE IS FOR TAIWAN?
KC WONG: Taiwan people realize the CCP is always lying. But they are always fooled that the Mainland is becoming more democratic. Now they realize this is only a joke. Only a dream. So, this is what we can give to the Taiwanese people so they can enjoy their democracy for a long, long time – because they have weapons. International interest between the U.S. and Japan will also be threatened if Taiwan is lost. On the other hand, the Chinese Army wants things to be stable internally. They don’t want any incidents inside their area. I do not believe the Chinese Army wants trouble.
NYQUIST: IS THERE A CHINESE FOOD PROBLEM?
KC WONG: They need Australian food imports and tried to punish Australia by stopping them from exporting food. This is a total failure. They do not have enough food to feed the pigs.
NYQUIST: IS CHINA FACING STARVATION?
KC WONG: Not really, because they keep importing food from abroad.
NYQUIST: IS THE STRATEGIC USE OF FOOD EXPORTS THE KEY TO MODERATING CHINESE BEHAVIOR?
KC WONG: But the rest of the world is too kind to the CCP.
NYQUIST: HAVE YOU HEARD OF THE SECRET SPEECH OF CHI HAOTIAN?
KC WONG: If the Western world lets China get stronger and stronger this [Chi’s threat to USA] will happen.
NYQUIST: ARE YOU DISAPPOINTED IN BORIS JOHNSON?
KC WONG: He is too political. Have you watched a documentary about Chris Patten [last UK Governor of Hong Kong] and his cabinet? They said the Chinese people have no more Maoist ideas but reformist ideas; but in reality they have Lenin’s ideas, which are ideas of order and control.
THOMAS FONG: The Western powers should learn from history. Helping us is not just for us, it is for you. Boris Johnson is already acting like Chamberlain. He is holding up a piece of paper, saying he has peace. It is not going to work. He should consider the effect of China’s actions on international order and law.
KC WONG: We have tried to get a meeting with Boris Johnson and he has refused. Also, the BBC did not come to interview or record us. Only the Russian or Taiwanese media came. We are in the center of this disaster, so we can tell the truth. Many people go to China saying they will make money. But they never expect to repay 200 percent. You give me a billion, then go to jail or else.
NYQUIST: THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN. THIS HAS BEEN AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION. BEST WISHES TO YOU.
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